The 3 Conversations You’re Not Having (That Would Fix Your Message Tomorrow)

It sounds like clickbait – but it isn’t.

There are three people already in your world who know more about why your offer isn’t converting than any strategist or sales coach ever could.

They’re not your coach. They’re not your audience. But they are the key to finally understanding why your message isn’t landing the way it should – and what to say instead.

In this episode of The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast, I’m sharing the specific conversations most founders overlook – and why listening differently might be the most strategic move you make this year.

Not more noise. Not another template. Just real insight from the people who’ve been quietly holding the answers all along.

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MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO: 

👉 Grab your free copy of “Three Techniques To Validate Your Offer (Before You Launch It) – AKA “Will anyone buy this?!” – here: https://www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/validate

🟠 In the episode I also mention my Offer Optimiser Audit. For details on this and other ways to work with me check out my LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-spreadbury

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🧡 Enjoyed this episode? Why not share it to your social media and tag me @orangesheepkatie – here’s the link: https://youtu.be/EXsTdhXW8S4

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When you’re ready, here are three ways I can help you get faster results: 

SUBSCRIBE to "The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast here on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts 

DOWNLOAD your "Ideal Client Anti-Avatar" to help you focus on the things that DO matter, forget the things that don't - and how to tell which is which: www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/anti 

WORK WITH ME: Your offer’s great. Your clients love you once they’re in. But getting them there? Still feels like hard work. Let’s change that.
 The Perfect Fit is where we craft messaging so sharp, your content does the filtering, and dreamy clients come pre-sold. Slide into my DMs on LinkedIn if you're ready: www.linkedin.com/in/katie-spreadbury

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Connect with me on socials: 

➡️LinkedIn (the best place to find me): https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-spreadbury 

➡️Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/orangesheepresearch 

➡️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orangesheepkatie 

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TIMESTAMPS ⏱️

00:00 Introduction: Why Your Offer Isn't Selling

00:32 Welcome to Upside Up Marketing Podcast

01:15 Identifying the Core Issue

03:03 The First Person you need to speak to is…

04:26 The Second Person you need to speak to is…

09:27 The Third Person you need to speak to is…

13:16 But what do you ask them?

15:34 Summary and resour

You can download your complimentary guide to "Three Techniques to Validate Your Offer Before You Launch" here: https://www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/validate

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Transcript

0:00

What if I was to tell you there are three people out there who know exactly why your offer isn't selling as well as you want it to, and know exactly how you can sell more of it. And I am not talking about gurus on the internet. It's spouting about funnels and messaging while sat behind a laptop. In fact, these people won't charge you a penny. I want to know more. That's what we're talking about today on the Upside Up Marketing Podcast. Using marketing to persuade people to buy your thing is hard, icky, and not an effective use of your time. It's an upside down way of doing things. Introducing upside up marketing, helping you create offers people want to buy and share them in a way that feels good. All over a nice cup of tea. Hello and welcome to the Upside Up Marketing Podcast if you've not been here before. My name's Katie Spreadbury, I am the ideal client whisperer and I make it my business to help small businesses. Find exactly the right words to communicate their true genius to the people they most want to work with. And what we're gonna be talking about today is how you go about finding out exactly why it is that that offer that you are. So proud of, and you know, he is gonna help so many people. Isn't setting the world on fire the way that you thought it would, the way, you know, it deserves to the way the hard work you are putting in deserves it to. Um, and this is something I work along with my clients. It's like the core of the work I do with them. And, um, I wanted to share it with you today because there is nothing to stop you going out there and starting to do this work yourself. Okay? And it's something that, um, not a lot of businesses actually do. Like people I actually speak to, they tend to try and infer this. Information rather than going out there and actually speaking to the people and getting it. So I'm gonna tell you about the three people who already know why your offer isn't selling and already know how you can make it better. I find that, when clients come to me, a lot of them have tried lots of different things. You know, if a launch didn't go as well as they hoped, they might have, uh, tried changing it up the next time by, uh, using a different tactic. So maybe they did masterclass that didn't work. So they try challenge, um, by, um, sending more emails, fewer emails by following up or not following up. And. Most commonly, the main issue is not the, uh, mechanism by which you're trying to get the sale. It is way beyond that. It is to do with exactly what you're selling and how you're talking about it. And that's what we are gonna be getting into today in terms of these three people that already know this information. Um, so you don't have to be there guessing it, you don't, it's not, people say business is trial and error, and yes it is, but we can vastly reduce the trial to error ratio by, by doing the, what I'm gonna be talking about today. So, the first person who has the information about why your offer isn't selling more and about how you can sell more of it is your most recent client. your most recent client has come to you at a point where they need to do the most. What you have said to them has resonated. It has made them think, this is somewhere where I want to invest my money. This is something where I think I'm going to get a result. And this is someone I trust. So they have the answer to why your offer is selling. Why is it that people buy? And when you know why people are buying, you can do more of that to attract more people like your most recent client. Of course, if this client turns out to be a nightmare, then what you're learning is what not to do and what messaging brings in. Not. Good fit clients, but um, that's a story for another day. So yeah, build it into your onboarding that you ask your clients when they sign up, um, what it was that stood out for them, the exact issues they are struggling with that led them to sign up with you and what it was that you said that made them think that you were the right person to fix it. Find out what that is and double down on it. Because if they're the kind of person you want to be working with, that's the kind of message that is gonna sell. So that's the first one. The second person who knows exactly why your offer isn't selling as many as you want it to, and how you can get it to sell more is the person you had the sales call with who didn't convert. So the person who came to you, they made the approach. They said, I think you might be able to fix my problem. Um, you had a conversation with them all about it, and they didn't go ahead with the work. They can tell you two things. They can tell you, number one, what it was in your marketing that made them approach you in the first place to have the call to, you know, why they inquired. Um, so what, what is working there and what's not, depending on whether they were a right fit or not. So they can tell you how effective your marketing message is to people who are, um, in that stage where they are looking for a solution. And they can tell you why ultimately they didn't sign up. Now. This can be a tricky one to navigate with people because, um, sorry, I've just had my hair cut. And, uh, you know, when you get your hair cut and all the little hair, little itchy, itchy hairs on your neck, like, I've tried to wash them off, but they seem to still be there. Um, so your, the people you had a sales call with and they didn't quite buy it could be a bit tricky to have that conversation without it sounding like a follow-up sales call. Um, or a, um, you know, sort of try and talk them around type thing, which is a bit icky.'cause you know, if they've made a decision and it's no, you don't want'em be like, oh, but why? And try and talk them around. It sounds desperate, it sounds needy. It's not gonna sit well with them. If they've been brave enough to say, no, it's not for me. Um, they don't then need to be, you know, have someone. Interrogating them about it, but it all, all it needs to be is like an open, honest conversation. It can even be done over email if that helps or indirectly. And this is a place where, um, my clients like me stepping in to help out because obviously, um, I can, you know, I'm, I'm a third party. They can say, they can say what they like without risking offending me. And, um, what? Yeah. So what the people that have not quite signed up. Can tell you all about is where you're not quite hitting the mark. And now there might be a lot of reasons they haven't signed up, but the two main sort of category reasons are, number one, they weren't a right fit for the offer. And number two, they were the right fit for the offer, but you didn't convey the value in a way that made them want to buy it. There was something there that made them think. This isn't worth the money to me, or I'm not gonna get the result being promised. Um, and both are useful to know and both tell you different things for the people that once you have the conversation, they realize they weren't a right fit to begin with. You need to be looking at your marketing messaging and look at what attracted them to make the inquiry when they were not a good fit for it. So you can adjust that and filter them out at an earlier stage so that, um, because I mean. As nice as it is to get inquiries if it's not the right fit. It's not only a waste of your time having the call, it's a waste of their time as well.'cause they're not gonna get anything out out of it. So, um, it's worth making. So they can help you filter out that message before they get to the inquiry stage. Um, and secondly, they could tell you if they were a right fit for the offer. Why they didn't sign up is really, really, really valuable information for you to have. Now, word of warning here. When you say to them, you can't just go to them and say, oh, why didn't you sign up? Gotta be a bit, a bit cuter than that because everyone's go-to reason is, I don't have the time to invest in this right now, or It was too much money for me right now. I mean, that is the first answer you're gonna get from 99% of people. Um, but there's always something more to it than that because if it's a real priority for them, they will find the time if it's a real priority for them. In most cases, they'll be able to find the money. Um, so what you are looking for is to dig a bit deeper in terms of, um, why it was, why it was that they can't put the time to it right now. Um, it, so it might not be that actually you need to cut back how much time your offer takes to deliver or for them to consume or whatever. Um, so say you're doing, um, just for argument's sake, an hour's call a week, um, and they say, oh, I haven't got time for that. You don't have to cut it down to half an hour a week because, um, unless, you know, unless it can be delivered in half an hour a week, um, that is then diminishing the value. But, if they haven't got the time, it means there are other things that are taking up their time. So you want to find out what they are and why they're more important or, um, if it's like. If they just didn't believe they were gonna get the result, then you want to be looking at. What they thought was gonna get in the way. What barriers did they have? What doubts did they have? You know, what were they thinking? Um, you know, are they looking at and thinking, oh, but I don't have this certain skill, or when I've tried this before, it hasn't, hasn't worked, and things like that. So really getting underneath it and finding out what was it that made them doubt that this was worth the investment and they could get the result. So that's your. Second person, the person who had the sales call with you and didn't follow through and buy. And then the last person is the person in your audience who has never made an inquiry. But does have the problem that you solve. So I'm not talking just anyone from your audience. I'm not talking the person you met at the conference who you are now, um, great friends with, and you comment on each other's post all the time just to support each other and'cause you like each other's content. I'm not talking about, um, your best mate from school. I'm not talking about the person who follows you because they're planning to revamp their website in two years time, but is perfectly happy with their website. Right now they're just following you for the hints and tips along the way. I'm talking about the person in your audience who has the problem that you solve and hasn't yet made an inquiry. You can find out so much from these people, uh, which will help you in your general marketing, and it'll help you increase the number of inquiries you get. And then because you've acted on the, uh, information you got from your clients and your nearly clients, the amount of inquiries you get will then increase the amount of clients you get. Um, increasing the inquiries will then increase the clients, so, um. To increase inquiries. Yeah. We need to be looking at your marketing that's going to your people who, the people out there who have the problem that you solve and you can find, yeah, you can find out so much from this person in your audience. You can find out exactly what is going on for them right now. What are they experiencing? What are they? Thinking in their head that they'd never say out loud, what are they, um, what's the real world implications of the issue that they are struggling with? Not just the logical things, the whole actually how it's impacting them. Um, so, for example, it's the difference between do you struggle with confidence when you are selling and. Do you just wish that you just get clients without ever having to speak to anyone about what you do ever? They would just email you and like be there in your lap. You know, that's, that's what people think, isn't it? When they're struggling with sales and marketing and don't, and feel awkward about talking about their products, what they really, really wishing for. Is that clients would just appear without them ever having to talk to anyone ever about what they do. So it's, it is about tapping into that deeper level message, um, that deeper thought process, um, joining in with what's in their head and showing how deeply you understand them. And this is where you get that information. If you go back through all these podcast episodes, I've done a theme that comes up again and again and again. Is joining in with that in a monologue showing how deeply you understand them. And this is where that in understanding comes from, from speaking to them and finding out what's really going on for them. So this third person, the person in the audience who has the problem, um, they're the ones that can really give you the, the fuel, I suppose to your, your main marketing efforts. So your social posts, your emails, your, um. The topics for your master classes, whatever it is that you do to get the word out about what you do, um, should be fed by conversations you've had with people who are actually experiencing the problems that you solve. Okay? So that's the three people for you today. There are your clients, there are your nearly clients, and there are the people in your audience who have the problem but have never inquired. And like I say, you don't have to spend a single penny to get. Feedback from these people. You just contact them and ask and you'll be amazed at how many people are willing to share, are willing to help. Obviously people who are clients, they're already, you are already onboarding with them. You're already talking to them. People who are nearly clients, you can identify them, you know, whether they were a good fit or not from the sales call you had. Um, but yeah, this third group can be a bit harder sometimes to, um, to get hold of. But actually, if you have been putting out socials and building relationships with your audience. People are lovely the people you wanna work with are lovely, aren't they? Let's face it. And um, people are usually more than happy to give a bit of time to help you out, um, with a conversation. Um, so yeah, that's the three people in terms of exactly what to ask them. Um, it varies from business to business to be honest, it varies depending on your own situation, what it is you sell, who your ideal client is. Um, but I've given you the sort of gist of it as we've gone through this, and I will cover that more deeply in future episodes. But one thing that is always, always worth asking is getting the answer to the question of. Why haven't things worked so far? Like, why are you still having this problem? What have you tried in the past? Uh, what have you not tried and why haven't you tried it? What is getting in your way? Because it is very easy to market to the problem. I dunno if you've noticed, um, marketing in the online space has become a lot more sophisticated over the over recent years and. There is a lot of very, very good pain point marketing out there describing the problem. Exactly. And, um, describing the result you wish you had instead. Exactly. Perfectly well. What is missing, I think is that bit in between. So we are all used to having our problems reflected back at us. Uh, but to actually get the sale now, I think you have to do more than just understand the problem. You have to understand why it is that the problem exists and why they haven't been able to solve it so far. Because you have to be able to say, look. Yeah, this is why what you've done so far hasn't worked. And this is how what I do is different. That is, I think, what is lacking from most offers that I look at when I'm evaluating offers, um, through my, um, offer optimizer audits. Um, what is often, yeah, what is often missing is the, why is this different and how is this gonna be gonna not just be like everything else that you've tried before. Um, so really understanding what people's blockers are and what people's barriers are at every stage. So even if you've got a new client. They've not managed to solve the problem so far'cause they've signed up with you to solve it. Um, your nearly client has not managed to solve the problem yet'cause they've made an inquiry to you about it and you're personally within the audience with the problem. Obviously, by definition they have the problem, um, because that's the one you're selecting to talk to. Um, why haven't they been able to fix it yet as well. That is the one where you're gonna get the best information to differentiate your offer from everyone else's out there. Now to get you starting with this, I do have a resource for you. Um, it's called Three Techniques to validate Your Offer before you launch it. AKA? Will anyone actually buy this? Um, much more straight talking title there. Um. Which I totally should have used. Um, and um, you can get that by clicking the link in the show notes. It's uh, www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/validate. And every time I have to read that out, I wish I picked a shorter domain for my business. But I'll put the link in the show notes so you don't have to sit there typing out all those different letters. Um. I just click on that and that will take you to the page where you can sign up to receive that. It will also sign you up to my emails and I email three times a week with more tips and advice like this on how to. Uh, basically how to improve the way you talk about your offers and improve your offers so that more people buy them. So I would love to have you, uh, to join my, um, curious Orange Gang and, um, it has been great talking to you today. Thanks for listening today and keep your marketing upside up.