The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast
This sort of marketing, however, is "upside-down" and the good news for you is that there is another way.
I call it "Upside-Up Marketing", and it starts with understanding the people you want to work with and creating offers they actually WANT to buy.
This makes marketing much easier, and definitely takes away that ick.
In this podcast I take my experience from my background in psychology and behavioural sciences and combined with my 20+ year career in market research, to help you create offers people actually want to buy, and share them in a way that feels good both to you AND to the people who might buy them.
All over a nice cup of tea 😊
The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast
Messaging Tweaks That Attract Premium Clients- with Colette McBeth (Ep#20)
Attracting premium clients isn’t about working harder – it’s about refining the way you speak to your audience to make sure you are attracting only the right people. If you’re stuck attracting price-sensitive buyers or clients who are frankly hard work, you need Colette McBeth in your life.
In this episode of The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast, Colette shows us how to make the messaging shifts that draw in high-calibre clients. Colette shares her upgraded approach to the concept of the “ideal client” that bring her people that are ready and willing to get stuck in and get results, her pain-to-pleasure messaging method that really speaks to these expansive clients, and a powerful reframe for how you share the results you can get people with conviction and clarity (without over-promising or being sleazy).
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YOU CAN FIND COLETTE ON INSTAGRAM: @thecolettemcbeth www.instagram.com/thecolettemcbeth
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When you’re ready, here are three ways I can help you get faster results:
SUBSCRIBE to "The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts
DOWNLOAD your "Ideal Client Anti-Avatar" to help you focus on the things that DO matter, forget the things that don't - and how to tell which is which: www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/anti
WORK WITH ME: Go deeper with me 1:1 to create "Perfect Fit" offers and content – if you're ready to say goodbye to having to work so hard for every sale, and let your content and sales pages do the heavy lifting for you so you have people in your DMs already pre-sold on the idea of working with you, work in depth with me as we craft your magnetic message and create an offer that (pretty much!) sells itself – connect with me on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/katie-spreadbury and send me a message for the details!
***Please bear with me as I migrate systems and update the tech in my business! There will be straight-up links to everything soon but for now don't be afraid to send me a message on socials, I promise I won't bombard you with DMs trying to convince you to buy, or "just checking in to see if you've had any more thoughts..." - that's not my style. At all. *****
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Connect with me on socials:
➡️LinkedIn (the best place to find me): https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-spreadbury
➡️Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/orangesheepresearch
➡️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orangesheepkatie
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TIMESTAMPS ⏱️
00:00 Introduction: Attracting the Right Clients
02:49 Beyond “ideal clients”; what is your “Expansive Client”
05:48 Stop messaging to the struggle: the Pain to Pleasure Method
08:45 The downside of attracting the wrong clients
18:16 Speaking to the result without over-promising
22:53 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
You can download your complimentary guide to "Three Techniques to Validate Your Offer Before You Launch" here: https://www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/validate
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Do you ever find that you are attracting clients that are hard work? So you get the amazing ones. You know the ones that hang on your every word, they grab what you have to say. They make it work for them, they run with it, they implement, they get results. Do you also attract the sort of people who you get a bit of pushback from them? They don't really do the work. They don't turn up to the sessions, and to be honest, you find it a little bit of a drag. Instead with kindness and love you know, you can help Them, but only if they're willing to help themselves. If you find your messaging is attracting a mix of clients like that, you need to listen to today's episode. I'm absolutely thrilled to be welcoming, Colette Mcbeth, who is an absolute master at messaging that speaks to those higher level clients, the perfect ones that are gonna come into your programs and get the most amazing results. I think you are really, really gonna like what she has to share. We're talking about how to avoid messaging for the struggle to make it more positive, how to speak to those higher level clients and bring in exactly the right people for your programs. So if that sounds like something you need, you are gonna love this episode. Welcome to The Upside Up Marketing podcast. Welcome to the Upside Up Marketing Podcast, and yes, like I say, we have a very special guest with us today. I'm very pleased to welcome Colette Mcbeth Colette, would you like to introduce yourself?
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Yeah, thanks for having me. So I am a storyteller and a messaging mentor, and really in a nutshell, what I do is help. Mainly female entrepreneurs, although not exclusively create content that naturally creates desire for their offers without the hard sell. Um, it's a very feel good way that we do it.
Katie Spreadbury:Absolutely. Yes. And it's the feelgood way that you do your messaging and marketing that I think really resonates with the, um. He fits in really nicely with the whole point of this podcast, which is about talking to the human, getting to the, you know, what people actually really want to hear, want to feel, uh, and really what's going on for them. Um, not what we might assume is going on for them, which can be like, um, you know, it's very easy to see the struggle, isn't it? But anyway, for a bit of context for everyone, the reason I've asked Colette on today is that, uh, you and I, Colette, we've worked together for a while, haven't we? Um. I've done quite a few of collect's programs and, uh, she's got some really, really good ideas that I really, really wanted to share with you and, um. I thought, well, rather than getting them secondhand from me, why not invite her on to speak to you all? So that's why Colette's here. Um, so Colette, one thing that we talked about a lot when I was working with you is obviously the ideal client, and um, I remember one day you saying to me. Gosh, Katie, like, we really need to think of a better name for it than this. Like, this is like, ideal client just isn't cutting it anymore. Um, and you did, you came up with something incredible. You came up with an expansive client, like even the word sounds inspiring. Um, could you tell us a little bit more about that?
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Yeah, and you are so right. I was like, I can't talk about ideal clients anymore because it's just the energy of the word. Like I'm really big on energy behind words. And so for me, the ideal client really refers to, particularly in the way that we're taught to market and message ideal client really refers to anyone with a problem that you help solve. Right. And the truth of the matter is you can have a bunch of people with a problem that you help solve, but they are not for one reason or another, ready or receptive to your work. And I quite often describe this as like, imagine you had eight women in a book club and they all have, maybe they're all waking up at three o'clock in the morning because of perimenopause or something like that. And the, but amongst those eight women. There's probably one or two who are actually going to take the action. Maybe there's a health coach there. Maybe she's talking about how, you know, she could help people, but they would need to like do a bit of work on themselves. They would need to put their phone away late at night. They would need to get out and have fresh air at six o'clock in the evening. And so there's maybe six of those women there who. Forgive me. Might be quite happy to carry on moaning about it, right, without actually going, do you know what? I'm gonna do everything I can. And it's those two women who are saying, I'm not gonna be a victim of this. I'm gonna do everything I can. More often than not, they've tried other things. So again, they're looking for a perfect fit solution, and those are the expansive clients.
Katie Spreadbury:Hmm. I think that's right and I think that's, um, a really important point you make there about the word ideal client. I mean, in theory yeah, ideal should mean the ones that are absolutely like, spot on. Perfect. But like you say, the energy of the word, it really has shifted and it, it kind of means, oh, that'll do these days, you know, anyone will do. Um, and. Yeah, it just doesn't, it doesn't carry that same, um, gravitas as perhaps it should do. And I think the way you're describing the expansive client really, really makes sense there. I guess the struggle, I guess the problem when you're trying to speak to the, uh, ideal client, um. As the word has come to mean is that it is very easy to speak to the struggle. And when you're speaking to the struggle, when you're speaking in that negative way, that's when it can sort of flip round to trying to like persuade and convince and um, like the energy of the marketing is just completely different, isn't it? Um, so how would you shift that messaging? So you're not speaking to the people that are in the struggle anymore, you're speaking to these more expansive clients. Like what, what, what can we do about that?
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Yeah, there's a really easy way that I've devised to do this because what I'm not saying, and I want to be really clear, is that you can avoid or leapfrog over. Working out the very specific problems that your expansive client has. We need to know them in order to be able to speak to them in the first place. So that work has to be done. But if you just talk about, as you say, the struggle, it's like you're stark, you're fed up. I mean, even if, you know for people listening to this, like if I said that to you, how would that make you feel in your body? Right. You might be like, oh yeah, yeah, I am. Help me, you know? Throw me a lifeline. Whereas what we know, Kate, is the people who really get the best results with us are like energized. They're ready to do the work, they're determined. So therefore we have to match the language to who these people are. So I have a method that I call the pain to pleasure method, and it's, imagine you use the pain points, which I would never encourage anybody to press in your marketing, but what you're gonna do is you're gonna use the pain points as a. Springboard to then speak to the pleasure. So if I give you an idea of this, if you say, just to use an example. Um, of waking up at three in the morning. You say, you know, you are so fed up of waking up at three in the morning, nothing you, you seem to do makes any sense to, makes any difference to you. And, you know, you are exhausted during the day and like, oh, you know, um, like, yeah, I mean, a lot of people would resonate with it. But if you said, you know, you've been pinging awake at three o'clock every morning and you've had enough of this, right? And you know, there's got to be a reason why this is happening and you are determined to work it out so you can wake up feeling energized again. You might think that's really nuanced, but it's a very different energy to it. So actually what we've done is go, these people are still waking up at three o'clock in the morning, but how can we speak? How can we kind of bump this client along from ideal to. Expansive and speak to that person who is determined to find the answers and is actively seeking out a solution.
Katie Spreadbury:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love that. And uh, everyone, if you haven't come across Colette before, do go across her Instagram and watch her reels because she does this so, so well, it's like a masterclass in it. Um, I'll put the link to her Colette's Instagram in the show notes so you can do that. Um, but what I'm interested in, Colette is. What did you see shift for you when you started using this approach? Did you, like, is this something that you started doing and, and, and saw change or is it something that you've always just done naturally? Um, and if not, yeah. What, what, what shifts did you see when you started to take this, uh, approach where you're talking to the, the positive and the, the pleasure of it, rather than the pain?
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Well, um, okay, so I will be really honest with you. Um, it isn't something I've always done and what I do and what I have always done, I. Is look very closely at the people who get the best results when they come to work with me because you know, and you are the same Kate, you don't just wanna take people's money, any anyone's money. You want somebody to come in and see that transformation and feel it. And it makes a huge difference because sure, that makes you feel good, it makes them feel good, but it actually grows your business as well, and it grows your self-belief. So I really believe that the, the clients you bring in that aren't the right fit will sabotage your self-belief. And then that creates a problem with the content because you know when you go out and you. You try and sell, you feel you've kind of, I always say it's like the ghost of the disappointed client hanging over your shoulder. You know, like, come into my program, we're gonna do this, this, and that. And you think, oh, what about Shelly, though? Shelly was really disappointed. If Shelly reads this post, she's gonna think, well, I didn't get that. So I'm very much like, stop speaking to those people. Stop diluting your message. In your content for people who aren't right for you in the first place. And I'll give you a really honest story. Like I could see the people who came and took the action, right? I mean, you know, you do what I say. You will see the results. Now, it depends on how quickly you see the results, depending on what offers you have in your audience size. But I did have one real, um, like a client. Who I think was sent to me as, as, a lesson because I was, I knew all of this, but I wasn't necessarily putting it into practice. And I had a client who was not like, as far away from expansive as you could, you know, imagine. And it was a really bruising, um, experience, but. What I realized was that, well, what, what was it that allowed her in? Right? What was it that I didn't say? And there were red flags, but, and how could I absolutely prevent? Somebody else like her coming in again. Now, I'm not saying she's a bad person, okay, I wanna be really clear about that. But we did not get on working together. And the truth of the matter is, is that not everybody is right for you, and not everybody is right to work with me. And that's why your content needs to repel those people. Like this person wanted me just to give her stuff like more and more and more and more and more, and it's like you need to do it. Right. You need to feel it. So I like, after that, I really doubled down on it. I was like, no more. Right? And I got really clear and that's when it was just because what, and I could see this happening, you know, when I talk about the sabotage of your self-belief, when I was kind of in that problem, it wasn't making me feel good. And, and it doesn't. I think we've all got examples if we're brutally honest, and again, I'm being, I am being honest here because the fact of the matter is we all have clients from time to time who we think, Hmm, maybe shouldn't have taken'em on. Maybe they're not the right fit. Not very many people talk about this'cause it's seen as a, a shameful thing. But where I come from, it's like, well actually look at them. What was it about them? How did they act? What did they say? What did they expect you to do? What didn't they do? Right? And plug that into your messaging and make sure you never get any more of them.
Katie Spreadbury:Yeah, I think that is a really important point. Um, it's one of those things, like you say, it can feel a bit shameful, like you shouldn't have had them in the program to start with. But it's so important to remember that you can learn as much, if not more from the people that weren't of fit as those that were, and, uh, use, use that to refine your messaging. When I'm working with clients and we are interviewing, um, ideal clients. A lot of them get disheartened.'cause you know, they'll speak to a couple of people and say, oh, they, they weren't my ideal clients. That was a wasted interview. And I'm like, well, no, because look at how they were different from the people that were, that do sound like your ideal clients, that that would be perfect for your program. And find those differences so you can pull them through in your messaging. Um, so yeah. Y you say, plug that into your messaging. How exactly would you do that? What would you be changing about the way you are speaking to, uh, make sure you are bringing in these perfect people and putting off, and more specifically putting off those that are gonna be the energy drains, the ones that aren't right for the program, the ones that, it's not gonna be good for anyone if they end up buying.
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:so it's honesty, you know? Well, there's a couple of things here. It is honesty and only speaking to this person. So if I only speak to the person who is going to do the work and is gonna get the results right, if, if somebody comes in and you know, she doesn't do the work, then I'm like, well, it's not my fault, it's your fault. Right? And, and we're not throwing around blame, but I'm like my, I know what I do works. So that in the very first instance, I'm like, I am speaking to that person. I can see it, you know, I, I, you'll have the, the people that you've loved working with. I'm like, more of them, please. Like you, Kate, you know? Right. So. That, that, and, and it's not, it's not that they don't ask questions. It's not that, that you don't, you don't hold them when there's a little bit of a tough time.'cause that always happens, you know? But it's that there's a growth mindset. It's this receptivity. So that's the first way, like I only speak to them now. But I'm, and I wouldn't put out a post like this every day, but I'm very clear. It's like, don't come to work with me if you expect this, this, and that. You know, don't come to work with me if you have, for instance, no audience whatsoever. I, I, I'm not really for those people, you know, don't come to work with me with. If you expect, you know, to like, just by the action of making a credit card payment that you are gonna grow your business. You know, and, and, and I also speak, and here's how things have shifted a little bit, because I used to say, oh my goodness, storytelling is so easy. You know, like even if you hate again, listen to how this has changed. Like, you know, even if you hate creating content, I'm gonna make it so easy for you. And I'm like, I don't wanna work with people who hate creating content. So I'm like, you are already creating content, but you know, there's just something not quite right. So that's one of the shifts that I've made, but also in some posts I'm very, very clear. It's like, I'm not your person if this, this, and that.
Katie Spreadbury:Yeah, I think that's really important. And I mean, there's nothing that annoys me more. Well, there's quite a few things that annoy me more, but it's really annoys me a lot when, um, I look at a sales page and there's a section like, who is this not for? And it's things like, you don't want to make more sales from your emails. You do not want to run a successful business. And it's like, it doesn't actually rule anyone out. It's, you wouldn't have even clicked on that page if that's not what you wanted. So, um, I do think. The, the onus is on US business, the owners to know who is right for our program and who isn't, and be able to communicate that effectively. I think a lot of the negativity in this online industry, especially the coaching industry, about, you know, people signing up for things, they're not getting the results that were they expected, or the programs not being right for them. Um. Is not because the person isn't good at what they do, this isn't good at delivering it, but because they hadn't really understood who the program isn't gonna work for, and therefore the messaging was talking to, you know, the, the, their marketing was talking to people that weren't right for the program. So these people have seen it thought, oh, that sounds great for me, and it's not for them.
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Yeah, I mean, and this is part of the expansive client work we do. It's not just what she wants. It's not even how, like how much she wants it.'cause as you say, most people want it. But again, if I look at the people who really like just go, it's that they truly believe. Themselves that they have something amazing to offer because you can do all the work, right? And I, and, and you can be yeah, determined, but if every time you go to say something, if every time you go to put a piece of content out, there's that voice going, who am I to say this? Right, and do I really get to say this? And it is just that constant undercutting. And I have worked with people who really on paper might look like those expansive clients, but when I listen to their negative self talk, the way they undermine themselves. I think you are not. And so again, like notice how we're not just speaking to what you want, how you're ready to move, but how you believe in yourself. And that's not to say that, look, we all have doubts, right? We're human. We all have setbacks. So, but it's something that transcends that. It's like, I know even on a day where I'm having a wobble. This work is really important. I know that I can change lives, I know I can change businesses. So that kind of just belief in yourself, that again, makes the expansive client
Katie Spreadbury:oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's really powerful. And um, going back, if I made to something you said a little bit earlier, made me think of this, um, one thing, a lot of people that I speak to, and if I'm honest, me, myself sometimes as well, uh, really struggle with is, um, talking about results on the sales pages because. You know, you can't guarantee people are gonna get results. And you, you know, that with the best will in the world, it is likely that not, not everyone will get the, the maximum potential results that they could possibly get from doing the work with you. So, um, like what advice do you give people in overcoming this in terms of, um, how to make, write their sales page with conviction without being like sleazy and over promising?
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Yeah, it's a really, really good question. And it gets people, you know, tied up in knots. So again, just going back to that point, if you were writing the sales page, which she should be for the person who is your expansive client, ready and receptive, truly believes in herself, but needs guidance. Yeah. That's who you're writing it for. So you're not writing it for all the other people who maybe aren't the right fit for you either. Like on an external level, IE their, you know, their ambitions are a little bit off, or their determination isn't there, or they don't have the self-belief and they expect, you know, you to do everything. So that's the first thing. But the second thing is, um. You know, marketing is basically done a done a dirty, you know, done as dirty because we don't have to promise this tangible outcome and we, we can still create a really resonant. Desirable outcome without saying you are going to drop 10 pounds in 10 weeks, you are gonna make 10 K in two days. Like actually, for the people I'm talking to, that makes them more suspicious than anything else. So again, expansive client is an intelligent person. She knows or he knows that. If only they could do this one thing, if only they could master this, then that. Okay, so for instance, Kate, like when people come to work with you, it's like, oh, I don't really see. My ideal client, you know, I'm putting content out there, I'm kind of bringing people in, but if only I could see this person, like she was sitting next to me, like I'd known her since we were 10 years old. You know, like I was her bestie. I know that I could bring the business in. And so that's what we're talking to. And it's, and, and, and again, if you think about that, it speaks to an intelligent person. It speaks to the person who knows that it's up to them. Who knows they're driving the bus, right? They just need that guidance. So I'm like, you are already making sales, but if your messaging could just land, right? And make that person go, oh my goodness, she is talking to me now. Right. How do you think that's gonna shift your sales? How do you think that's gonna drive dms? So is there a really tangible promise? Well, I do say that your dms will get very busy'cause it's true. It's like, you know, it happens time and time and time again, but people have to do it in order to see the result.
Katie Spreadbury:Absolutely. And, uh, apologies. My camera just overheated. Uh, I tried to use my iPhone as a camera and it's just got too hot and it refused to work, so I've just had to switch to my, uh, laptop camera, so that's why it looks like I'm looking down on you a bit now. Um, but yeah, absolutely. Uh, I think that's a great reframe. Um, that you sales page, you're not writing your sales page for the people that aren't gonna get the results. You are writing it for the people that are, and I guess then it's a, uh, combination of. Having that conviction that what you do works for the right people, and combining that with being really, really, really clear about who those right people are, who it actually is that it will work for, so that you can, um, make sure that that comes across really, really clearly in your copy.
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:I mean, bringing the wrong people in is really the law of diminishing returns. Because it's just, you know, it's rather than like scaling the solution, you are scaling the problem. It's like she didn't get the results. She didn't get the results. Now you're beginning to question your offer. Now you're beginning to question yourself. Sure, you might have got a sale in the short term, but that short term gain is going to create a lot of long-term pain, and so we need to get out of that cycle.
Katie Spreadbury:Yeah. Oh, thank you so much, Colette. Um, I learned so much from you. Every time we talk, um, I'm always, I'm gonna have to listen back to this episode to take some notes from some of the gold you've shared today.'cause like I say, I always learn something new every time I speak to you. And you've had some really good, really good things to share with us today. Uh, thank you so, so much.
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:My pleasure
Katie Spreadbury:Dunno the pleasure's all ours. Where can people go to find out more about you? Um, see these amazing reels that you share with the planes. Paint pleasure of messaging, and, uh, find out about everything that you do.
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Yeah, so I am@thecolettemcbeth on Instagram, and that is, even though I do uh, pre put content out on other platforms, Instagram is my main platform. So that's the best place to find me.
Katie Spreadbury:Okay everyone go and follow Colette'cause she is fantastic. Um, thank you so, so much today. It's been absolutely brilliant.
Colette McBeth @thecolettemcbeth:Thank you for having me.
Katie Spreadbury:No problem at all. And uh, I'll make sure I put that link to your Instagram in the show notes, notes as well. So that was the collect My Beth, I'll pop that in the show notes as well. So everyone you can get that with a click of a button or a tap of your phone screen. Um, and yes, thank you so much, Colette. Um, if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to follow, subscribe, whatever the word is, on whatever. Channel you are watching this on. Um, I have more amazing guest experts lined up over the next couple of months. Um, it's gonna be incredible. I've really enjoyed having, um, having Colette here and, uh, some of the interviews that I've recorded already with the other guests are looking absolutely incredible as well. So do hit subscribe if, uh, you want to be notified when they come out. And, um, thank you so much for listening. Keep your marketing upside up, and I will see you next time.
