Don't Ask Customers What They Want! (Ask Them This Instead) (Ep#18)

Most online business owners believe the best way to create offers people want is to ask them directly. Makes sense, right? Except…it doesn’t work.

Your audience will tell you what sounds good in theory, but that doesn’t mean they’ll actually buy it. So how do you uncover what they truly need?

In this episode of “The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast”, I’ll show you why asking “What do you want?” leads you astray, and what to ask instead to create offers that sell.

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MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO: 

👉 You can get your hands on the five questions to ask your new clients, that will help you sign MORE clients by DMing me on Facebook or LinkedIn (I’ll send you the direct download, no opt-in required). If you’re not sure what to say or can’t be bothered to type a whole message, just use the word “QUESTIONS” – I’ll know what you mean!

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🧡 Enjoyed this episode? Why not share it to your social media and tag me @orangesheepkatie – here’s the link: https://youtu.be/aUVyo1blxqE

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When you’re ready, here are three ways I can help you get faster results: 

SUBSCRIBE to "The Upside-Up Marketing Podcast here on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts 

DOWNLOAD your "Ideal Client Anti-Avatar" to help you focus on the things that DO matter, forget the things that don't - and how to tell which is which: www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/anti 

WORK WITH ME: Go deeper with me 1:1 to create "Perfect Fit" offers and content – if you're ready to say goodbye to having to work so hard for every sale, and let your content and sales pages do the heavy lifting for you so you have people in your DMs already pre-sold on the idea of working with you, work in depth with me as we craft your magnetic message and create an offer that (pretty much!) sells itself – connect with me on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/katie-spreadbury and send me a message for the details! 

***Please bear with me as I migrate systems and update the tech in my business! There will be straight-up links to everything soon but for now don't be afraid to send me a message on socials, I promise I won't bombard you with DMs trying to convince you to buy, or "just checking in to see if you've had any more thoughts..." - that's not my style. At all. ***** 

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Connect with me on socials: 

➡️LinkedIn (the best place to find me): https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-spreadbury 

➡️Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/orangesheepresearch 

➡️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orangesheepkatie 

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TIMESTAMPS ⏱️

00:00 Introduction: Why Asking Customers What They Want is a Mistake

00:42 Welcome to the Upside Up Marketing Podcast

01:52 The Flaws of Market Research

09:46 Understanding Customer Goals and Obstacles

12:20 Bridging the Gap with Your Expertise

16:46 Who to Ask and What to Ask

17:38 Conclusion and Resources

You can download your complimentary guide to "Three Techniques to Validate Your Offer Before You Launch" here: https://www.orangesheepresearch.co.uk/validate

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Transcript

0:00

If you're planning to introduce a new offer or service into your business or refine an existing one and you really want to make sure that you're putting out something that people actually want to buy, people are actually going to purchase, you might think that the best thing you could possibly do is to go out to your clients and your prospective clients, your audience. And ask them what they want from you. If you were looking for someone to help you with XYZ, what would you want from that? What would that look like to you? Etc, etc. Well, I'm here to tell you today that is the absolute worst thing you could possibly do. But don't worry, I'm not leaving you in the lurch. I'm going to show you exactly what to do instead. So today's podcast is all about don't ask customers what they want, here is what to ask them instead. Welcome to the Upside Up Marketing Podcast. Using marketing to persuade people to buy your thing is hard, icky and not an effective use of your time. It's an upside down way of doing things. Introducing Upside Up Marketing. Helping you create offers people want to buy and share them in a way that feels good. All over a nice cup of tea. Hello, hello and welcome to this episode of the Upside Up marketing podcast. Before we start, I just want to make a little apology. Of course, I have left my podcast recording until the very last minute, again. And this has backfired spectacularly this week because my office is in a sort of converted garden shed. And just the other side of this wall behind me, there are workmen in the garden erecting a fence. So, I will try and edit out any banging and bashing and I heard some lovely choice language earlier as well. I'll try and edit any of that out of the background, but if you hear any sort of disturbances in the background that's what that is, so apologies. But I thought more important than having the sound quality perfect was to get this episode out to you as promised as you are expecting, because I've got some really juicy stuff to share with you today. I want to start with a quote from Rory Sutherland. If you haven't come across Rory, look him up, he is incredible. he is one of the top minds in advertising in the country and his book Alchemy is absolutely incredible. Highly, highly recommend it. It's all about counterintuitive thinking. So This is what he says and he is absolutely right The trouble with market research is that people don't think what they feel They don't say what they think, and they don't do what they say. Ah! Where does that leave us, then, if we are hoping to speak to people and ask them questions to understand what they feel, what they think, and what they're, what they're going to do? Where does that leave us? And that's what I want to talk to you about today, because good market research is not about asking people. what they think, what they feel, and what they are going to do. I mean, by all means, it's part of it, but you cannot take anything that people tell you at face value, because that's just not how our minds as humans work. We are terrible at predicting what we're going to do. Just, I mean, think about how many times have you said to yourself, right, I am going to eat healthily this week, or I'm only going to have one drink tonight, anything like that, it's, you just don't do it. I'm going to get that social media post out by 10am so I can get on with my day. That is just not how you know, our intentions don't always follow through to our actions. And when we are thinking about things we have done in the past, we justify our decisions with logic and with reason. When our actual motivations for making those decisions might not have been based on logic and reason at all. They were completely based on emotions and how we felt in the moment. And we're later, sort of, post rationalizing what we've done by, applying logic and reason to it, when actually another course of action would have been just as logical. For example, whenever I go on a really long run, Like a really long run I have a recovery shake afterwards Which is a chocolate flavor powder that I mix up with some milk and it's delicious And I say I'm doing that to help my recovery to help, you know, get some protein in to help my muscles To help my body recover from the run. Really, I suspect, I'm just doing it because I love the excuse to have a chocolate milkshake. Logic and the real reasons for doing things are not necessarily one and the same. So where does that leave us? Another really famous quote comes from Henry Ford. He says, I think I might have shared this with you before If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses. And of course, Henry Ford is famous for bringing the motor car to the mass market. He produced something that people could replace their horses with. And if he'd said to people, you know, what do you want? They're never going to have said a car. Or if he'd even gone to people and said, do you want a car? They'd have been like, just make my horses faster. But that's not how research works. That is not how it works to get the information that you actually need to develop these offers, develop these services that people actually want to buy. Okay, and the most dangerous thing about this is if you do go out there and ask them what they want, they will come back with perfectly logical, reasonable sounding answers. They will say to you, Oh, I really like it to be a six week program or a 12 week program. They'll say to you, Oh, I really like to learn more about this, that, the other. You know, they will say to you, Oh, I'd love to have a course because then I can work through it in my own time. The reality is that doesn't necessarily translate into something they're actually going to buy. They're just making their own assumptions and outside of the context you think about when someone's actually buying something the context they're sitting in they're amid all that good stuff that you share with them to help them make the decision on whether to buy or not When they're in that context, it's very different when they're just sitting there going. Oh, yeah I'd love to do a course on that one day and it's not it's not quite the same You know, like I would really really love to take up the guitar again You know, I learned it a bit in my 20s. I haven't picked up a guitar since. I have one just sitting in my house in the hope one of my kids would take it up, but neither of them have. So far, I'm still working on that one. So if someone said, oh, you know, I teach guitar like what what would you want to get you learning the guitar again? And I'd say oh, yeah, it'd be really great actually to have some, you know A process I could follow bite sized lessons that I could just work into my day I'd say all this blah blah blah blah blah like because it sounds great, doesn't it? But would I actually do it? Nah, probably not and would I buy it? No, because I know I wouldn't actually do it It's not a priority for me right now but because like It's something I'd love to do, I'd still be able to give an answer, but it's yeah, not something I would ever actually invest money in. Certainly not at this stage of my life when I already have far too much going on to be worrying about something like that. So, it's It's almost dangerous to ask the question, because you will get answers, you will make business decisions based on this, only to find they were talking absolute nonsense, I'm afraid, and still nobody buys. So, you can't just go up to people and say, what do you want from me? You know, I do graphic design, what do you want from me? I work in social media marketing, what do you want from me? If you were to work with a social media marketer, what would you want? Now people aren't doing this to be mean, they genuinely think they're being helpful and they genuinely believe what they are telling you. That's the thing, nobody's putting the wool over your eyes here, people genuinely believe the things that come out their mouth about what they want. But the same way you genuinely believe you will eat healthily this week, you genuinely believe you will only have one drink at that night out. As Rory Sutherland so succinctly put it, people don't think what they feel. They don't say what they think and they don't do what they say. People don't know they're not telling the truth, but they're telling their truth in that moment, but that doesn't actually reflect the reality of the world and what you're going to see in your bank balance when you put your offer out. And why is that? Why is that? Well some of the reasons are just based around psychology and our perception of ourselves versus the reality. But there's also a huge thing going on here which is You're the expert in what you do. They are not the expert. So they don't have all the knowledge to be able to answer the question. When Henry Ford went out to his people and said, What do you want? And they say, Faster horses. They just don't have that, you know, for them, the idea of owning a car was so far out of their reach, it was like some novelty thing that only really rich people had. Like the same as going to spaces at the moment, like it's a novelty thing that only the richest people do. It wouldn't be within their sphere of what is possible for me. So, they wouldn't have said it. It wasn't something that felt possible to them. They didn't have the knowledge, they didn't, you know, know the practicalities of it, they just didn't have that expertise to be able to answer the question properly, knowing what options were available to them. That Henry Ford quote especially is often used as a tool by people who just can't be bothered to do it to absolutely lambast market research, say there's no point doing it they just rubbish it, and people don't do what they say, people don't know what they want, so people aren't the expert of their own life. is effectively what that is saying, so there's no point talking to them. But, I would counter that completely with people are the expert of their own life, because What people are the expert of, is their perception of the world and how they experience it. And you need to get to that, if you're going to be able to communicate with them, In a way that they're going to understand. So it is still absolutely critically important to be going out and speaking to people. Assumptions can't do this. Looking what other people have posted and are sharing in your niche can't do this. AI can't do this. The only way to get inside people's head and their perception of the world is to actually Speak to them. So, when you are talking to your audience, to develop other offers they might want. You're not asking them what do you want, you're asking them what's going wrong. What is not right in your life right now that you wish could be different? So we're really looking to dig deep here. You want to know what their ultimate goal is. What are they ultimately trying to achieve here? And there's going to be a big goal, you know, there's going to be an overarching goal, for example, growing their business to a certain revenue level so they can live a certain lifestyle, or, Setting up their business in such a way that they can take themselves out of a lot of the day to day running and work only a certain number of hours a week so that they can live a certain lifestyle, or you know, if it's in the health sphere, the overall, overarching goal might be, A fit and healthy and active retirement, but that starts right now with smaller goals. So within that bigger goal, there's going to be smaller goals. So a fit and healthy retirement starts with being able to run for 5k or it starts with getting regular with your strength training until you can, there might be a goal like how much you can bench press or how many press ups you can do, or it might just be a I need to do this consistently so that I feel good. You know, I need to be doing this three times a week. That might be the goal. There are micro goals within that. With a business, it might be, I need this launch to succeed. I need this offer to sell. I need to set up this system so that things work in the background. You know, there's, there's micro goals along the way, the specific ones. So you want to know their big overarching goal, and you want to know what they feel like their specific goals are at the moment there. What do I need to do next to achieve this? This may or may not agree with what you know. is what they need to do next to achieve this, but you need to know what they think they need to do next to achieve it. So their overarching goal, their micro goals, whether or not you agree with the micro goals and then what is getting in their way? What is stopping them from doing this? Both the overarching goal and the micro goals. Why are they either hitting a block? As in Something that's just stopping them. There's an obstacle they can't overcome. So in a business that might be the tech. They just can't get their head around the tech. There's too many different options to choose from. Or it might be that they've got this elaborate thing set up but now it's so big and sprawling and they've pieced bits on here, there and everywhere that it's now starting to fall apart and cracks are appearing. And the customer experience is getting affected and that's affecting their business reputation, etc, etc. You know, what are the stumbling blocks? What are the problems along the way? And you can then use your expertise to see why they are not at the goal yet. And fill the gap, fill that gap with your services and your offers. So the first thing you need to know is what that big overarching goal is. The second thing you need to understand is what they think the steps are to get them there, or their next steps at the very least. And the third thing is what do they see as stopping them from getting them there. Okay, and look at those things, look at where they're trying to get to, what they're doing to get there, and what is stopping them. Now from that you will be able to see the very surface level stuff. If they are very obviously just struggling with something because of a skills gap or a knowledge gap. And they're taking the right steps, but they just need some help. But you will also be able to see, with your expertise, where they are missing a trick. Where the gaps in their knowledge are. Not in their knowledge of how to do a thing, but their knowledge of what options are available to them. So if they are trying to scale a business and all their services are one to one, and they continue working that way, obviously they're going to hit a ceiling, because they either need to keep putting their prices up and up and up to the point where they're unachievable, even for their highest level clients. Or, they're going to have to work more and more hours and they're going to get to a point where, very quickly, where there are no more hours left in the day, you know, they can only do what they can do. So, it is for you to fill the gap there and find the solutions for them that they don't know exist. Whether that is introducing, DIY or done with you offers so that people need less of their input, whether it is scaling it into a group program so that some of the effort can be duplicated across all their clients, or whether it's starting an agency model so they can bring more people in to help them with the delivery of what they're doing, but retain that one to one service. You know, and what that is will depend on the person and their goals and how they want to work. But even knowing those options are available is a massive difference. So you are filling that gap. Whereas they think they just have to work harder and harder and keep putting their prices up and up and run themselves into the ground until they burn out. You can step in with your solutions that may, they may not have even considered. So, it's really, really important to understand that you're the expert in your area and you know what the solutions are. And the gap you need to bridge is between what you know the solutions are and your people think the solutions are. So in your messaging, in your content, in the way that you talk about your offers, you need to be meeting people where they think they are, where they're at right now. So with the problems they think they have and the solutions they think they need. I'm not saying you need to deliver the solution they think they need if it's not the thing for them, but you need to understand what they think they need. So that when you're talking about your offers and your Services. You can meet them where they're at and show them. That you get them and they're in the right place because this is what they need and then you can bring them on the journey Of understanding bridging that gap and understanding why what you're offering is actually going to be the thing that's going to solve the problem for them And that might mean that you're addressing both the thing they think they need and the thing they actually need in the process. It's quite likely the thing they think they need will help, but maybe they need the thing that you do with them in the first instance to make it work. So for example, I, when I work with people, a lot of the people that I work with think they need to create a new offer, they need to create a course, they need to create something for, something that's lower ticket or something like that. They think they need to create something new because the thing they've got isn't selling. But I can see the reason the thing they've got isn't selling is that they haven't done that foundational ideal client work to really understand their people. So their message isn't connecting. Now if I go in saying. I'll forget that your message isn't connecting. Don't worry about creating anything new Some people will be receptive to that but some people will say no you don't understand I've spoke like i've really tried to push this i've spoken to loads of people i've lost the love for it I just want something new and energetic and exciting to bring into my business So I work with people to both develop new offers and revamp their old offers when we're developing the new offers We do the whole ideal client piece. We understand the people and once we have that understanding we can then apply that to, apply that to current offers as well as new offers so that both sell really well, not just the, not just the new one. So it's about understanding and meeting people where they're at and in order to do that you have to know where they are at. Right, the final point here is who should you be asking these questions to? Now there are three groups of people who I think you definitely need to be speaking to when you are learning about your ideal clients. There are the people that are in your audience that haven't bought yet. There are the people that nearly bought, but haven't done so yet. And there are the people that have just recently bought from you. And all three of those people will have a different perspective and a different view and help you build up on different parts of your marketing. But for every single one of them, you should be asking these sorts of questions that get to the root cause and motivations underneath why they're doing what they're doing. Not the hypothetical what do you think you want type question. So we're not talking hypothetical here, we're talking real. And there is no one better qualified to give you real reasons for why they've done something than someone who has just bought from you. So I have put together a resource that you can, Download which is the five questions. You should be asking your new clients as part of their onboarding If you want a copy of that, send me a message using the links in the show notes, there's no sign up required. Because I haven't set up the tech for that yet, so send me a DM with the word questions and I will pop that over to you, I'll just send you a direct link to the Google document. Which has those five questions on it you can get me on LinkedIn or on Facebook. My links are in the show notes and yeah, send me a, send me a DM and I will pop that straight over to you. Whatever you do, when you're asking these questions, keep an open mind, keep your preconceived ideas about what people, is going on with people, keep them right out of it and go in with that open mind. Listen and adapt accordingly and then combine what you find out from those conversations with your expertise and meld them together into a perfect solution for your audience. And remember, question everything, especially your assumptions. That's all for this week. I'll be back in two weeks with another episode. Don't forget to download your questions guide and I will see you very soon. Bye.